0:09  
Hey, everyone, I'm Julia.

0:11  
And I'm Logan. And you're listening to the freshest new podcast coming straight out of JRN 318 section oh, one one.

0:18  
Yeah, we're talking the hottest,

0:20  
we're talking the coolest.

0:22  
We're talking art.

0:23  
Or, as we also like to be known around these parts, intense ruminations on the very nature of creative discourse and the personal work it inspires. This is your number one source for performance, visual and creative outlets in Toronto. And coming up right now we have a small sample of what's to come.

0:50  
I've always been like really confident, but doing drag has really like brought it out of me and like, I'm able to, like meet people and like, not be shy. And like go in front of a crowd, like public speaking is like not really an issue for me anymore because I have to for my job, it's part of like what I do,

1:13  
Then you'll they'll see you in a costume. And it could be the most beautiful costume the most detailed thing. And you've could have put hours and hours of work or lots of lots of money commissioning somebody to make it for you. And you're still gonna get somebody come up to you being like, do you know who this character is? Do you know why they're wearing this?

1:31  
The problem is, is that there's that underlying level of harassment and rudeness and bullying that exists in the community.

1:45  
The first time I heard it, I kind of like heard it and I was like, Wow, that was really cool. But a few times after I went back and listen to it, it started kind of hitting home, I guess. But there is a moment in particular in one of the songs where it was like, oh, my gosh, like, whoever wrote this, they get it. Because I've never heard it said out loud in in that sort of a way.

2:21  
Because, you know, like players just like, you know, like many of us, were looking for something. You know we're trying to, like, you know, you know, talk about the musician here, you know, they're looking for something that kind of resonates with them and that kind of inspires them. You know, so that they you know, whenever they're away from it, they want to get back to that instrument and play it. It's a voice basically, that represents them.

2:49  
All of these different people from different parts of life, different walks, different programs. They don't know each other. They come together for four or five days for performances and they make something.

3:14  
The Ryerson community theater or RCT is a group for theater geeks to come together and do what they love, which is to act. But despite their passion for the stage, most of them will not be able to make a career out of this hobby, because they're bad. Money is the main reason why most of these community theaters actors will choose alternative paths. In this podcast, Julia goes backstage before their final year and festival performance to ask them about how and where they draw a line between their passion and their career.

3:48  
 In the dressing room is buzzing with chatter as actors and actresses prepare for their last show. There's calm yelling, nerves, and lots of laughter. Welcome to Ryerson community theater, also known as RCT. This group begins rehearsals after winter break in preparation for their annual show in March. Members are made up of mostly students who have a passion for acting, but who are choosing another career path because of the monetary nature of the business.

4:24  
Okay, fine. 6:15 but be ready.

4:32  
The last show! Bring it all out guys. Is it no more stuff all that all that emotion you've been holding in? Now's the time to really feel it. Okay, guys. All right.

4:43  
Brian Chu, the artistic director tries to warm up the actors voices by leading them through fun vocal activities.

4:50  
You know, you know you need. She sells seashells by the seashore. She sells seashells by the seashore.

5:05  
Brian is fun and energetic with an infectious laugh. But acting is something he takes very seriously which he began doing as an at risk youth.

5:15  
The very first memory I have of acting is, I was in a some school skit, I was in grade 1,2,3? I don't remember. But I remember in the moment, I was like, if I was, if I was really on stage, I would be, I would be really worried about my mark. And the teacher came up to me and said, you know, Brian, that was really great. I could tell that you were worried about your marks. And I was like, Okay, thank you. So I guess I was little when I first clicked that acting isn't just talking, talking heads on stage. But I think where the real shift was, was, I was part of a summer group called Shakexperience. It's, it's for at risk youth. But I think that experience when I really understood what it was to have to go on a stage kind of discipline. Where it's not just oh, look at me, look at me, I'm so great. But really, we're acting as an art form, and not just as something fun to do or think funny, or something silly to do. And our friends.

6:09  
Despite his love of acting, Brian enrolled in Computer Engineering.

6:18  
So I didn't go to theater school for a couple reasons. So the first reason was, I talked to my mother, and she's so she's fantastic. She's wonderful, very supportive. She said, Brian, if you want to go to theater school, you can. But please don't go to theater school, so there was that. I also spoke to a couple of my friends of the time in the industry, my mentor, and they all told me actually that they didn't regret it, they were glad that they did acting, they can live without acting. But if they could do something else, they would do something else. And that if I can do something that might end up with me, not homeless on the street, I should try that first. Because, according to them, you can always get in front of a camera and act, but you can't always get in front of a circuit board and solder.

7:04  
Brian says acting has provided a creative outlet for when stresses from family and school have become too overwhelming.

7:12  
About two years ago, I think I was having a really hard time in engineering, I think, I think I really wasn't enjoying it at all. I think I really didn't, it didn't click for me. But having that emotional outlet, that artistic outlet that non-engineering force in my life has helped me get through that helped me get through that rough patch. I think acting and RCT has been a way for me to step away from some of the more, I guess you might call them hard, objective stresses in my life.

7:45  
Theater is his main passion, but for monetary reasons, he will remain on this path to becoming an engineer.

7:52  
My passion is definitely theater. I definitely love theater. It's something that I don't think I could live without. But I also have a passion for food as well, and shelter and clothes. So there's all it's all you know, you got to balance these passions. Every time you every time you do anything, you gotta really balance what what you like the most. So I definitely would say that theater, the arts, performing is a great part of my life today. I want to keep as I go forward.

8:16  
But seriously, I think there is the it's always in my mind still that I would pursue this as career. But of course right now, my current directory is definitely not really aligned to that right now. How I plan to pursue acting after school is probably more along the lines of community theaters. I still take acting classes and it's always a process of evolution, right. In terms of my career, I probably will end up working at a computer engineering firm.

8:44  
Janine Fernandez is a general manager of RCT, as well as a director and she's also enrolled in child and youth care full time at Ryerson. Like Brian, she won't pursue acting because of the money making aspect of the business.

8:59  
I'm very interested in the idea of drama therapy for children and youth. So I think that theatre is a really great opportunity for expression. And that's something that we miss a lot of the times and children and youth are dealing with difficulties and I'd love to be able to make it more accessible. Where horses are a lot of work. I'd like to thank my actors, we're having some fun, but they shouldn't have been. I think I have a really crazy calendar app where I'm just scheduling things all the time. So it's really important for me that I don't miss any of those notifications. Basically, I have to schedule out fun time, which doesn't sound fun, but once I do it it's worth it.

9:38  
Janine says both she and the group have grown since she began her involvement.

9:45  
I think RCT has grown in a lot of ways and I'd like to think that I have as well. It's really been wonderful stepping into the shoes of writer and director and being able to also general manage at the same time. I think RCT is an ongoing community and it's a network that you never really leave so once you you're a part of it, you're a part of it forever. And that's a really great opportunity to have in your life.

10:06  
Greg's dragging. {laughter}

10:10  
All of these different people from different parts of life, different walks, different programs, they don't know each other. They come together for four or five days for performances and they make something. They make something that they all share and as a whole.

10:29  
In Toronto, I'm Julia Knope.

10:39  
That was an excellent listen. And that was actually made by our very own Julia Knope by J dog, as we like to call her. She's actually sitting right next to me, Julia, how fun was that to make?

10:50  
That was so much fun going backstage, talking about their process, seeing what inspires them? What motivates them? I, I loved it. I loved the whole process of it.

11:00  
Yeah and what was like the most enlightening part of that?

11:02  
I think the most enlightening part Logan was just just understanding how how passionate they are about it and how they focus all their free time, which isn't much when you're in school into this hobby that they'll never make a career out of, but that they love.

11:17  
And would you recommend to any of the listeners out there joining that RCT?

11:22  
I would say if you're passionate about it, join because you know, you only live once and there's only so much time and you've got to think about what you dedicate your time to. And if that if your passion is acting, I would say join RCT. It was it was a great experience Logan.

11:39  
That's great to hear. Although theater can be used as a method for creative expression, it can also be used as a way to combat stereotypes.

11:47  
Yes, in our next segment, Isabella Perone delves into how mental health is represented in musical theater. She looks at mental illness and the musical Next to Normal through the eyes of Francesca Perone, her sister,

12:00  
She's 18 years old and has been living with depression for four years. Francesca helps us understand how one show changed how she saw her own illness.

12:09  
The stigma surrounding mental illness has decreased a lot in recent years, better representations of people with mental illnesses have helped. And one place where good representation is happening is in theater, specifically musical theater. In the last decade, many musicals have shifted their focus from big numbers and bright colors to favor showing darker, more emotional stories. One of these musicals is Next to Normal, which debuted on Broadway in 2009. It's this particular show that gave my sister Francesca the representation she needed. The show's main character is a woman named Diana, who lives with manic depression and it tells the story of how her illness affects her and her family. For Francesca, who was diagnosed with depression four years ago, the show has stuck with her and helped her begin to work through her own experiences.

13:07  
It was one of the first instances where I ever felt like it might be written by somebody who actually understood the situation. The first time I heard it, I kind of like heard it. And I was like, Wow, that was really cool. But a few times after I went back and listened to it, it started kind of hitting home, I guess. But there is a moment in particular in one of the songs where it was like, Oh, my gosh, like whoever wrote this they get it because I've never heard it said out loud in that sort of a way.

13:47  
You don't know what it's like to live that way {singing}.

13:58  
But I don't know what I've done.

14:01  
Brandon Schwartz, the president of the Ryerson musical theatre company has worked in and around musicals since he was five years old. He was able to offer an actor's perspective of what goes on behind the scenes when characters with mental illnesses are brought to life on stage. 

14:19  
Yeah, I think it's a lot of research. Because just I think the way that that that concept kind of works with playing character, who's dealing with mental illness, it's impossible to really bring that level of truth to the character where you've, you're speaking from experience. So it's a lot of research a lot of second hand conversations, learning about it and doing the best because right, the actor's job is to bring as much truth to the character as possible.

14:51  
It's a way to sort of discuss these emotions and these experiences in a way that allows you to be as dramatic as you need to be and sort of blow things out of proportion. But to express these feelings in a space where people are open and receptive to them, and they're willing to understand, and they want to hear your story.

15:17  
When we write shows, or direct shows, or portray characters who are dealing with these issues, and we jump into them as people. Before we jump into them as people with mental illness, they get better represented.

15:34  
I spoke to psycho therapist, Matt Cahill, about how good and bad representations of mental health issues affect people. He worked for 20 years in the television and film industries before studying psychotherapy and knows that bad depictions can create stigma and hurt those with mental illness.

15:53  
It's not helpful if our portrayals of mental health are treated as some sort of affliction. I think anyone who has struggled with mental health issues, has probably picked up on the fact that there are people out there who will say, Well, you know, you're just weak, or you're, you know, you're just you need to be harder on yourself, or, you know. That somehow having a mental health issue, you're somehow fragile. 

16:33  
Thing about is, I think a lot of people say, Oh, I understand what you're going through, or like, you know what, it's gonna be fine. Like, just if it's something that's happening to you, hearing other people say, even though you know, it's coming from a good place, and you know, that they're actually trying to get it. Occasionally, you can't help but feel angry. Because it's happening to you. And you really, like how could they ever possibly get it. And if they can't get it, then they can't know how difficult it is.

17:20  
When people who are living with mental illness see themselves in shows or in characters, they get a chance at being represented and to connect to a story that reflects their own life. For Francesca, hearing her own experiences described in a musical helps her to live with her mental illness. And she hopes that other people in similar situations to hers will give the theater a chance to represent them too. In Toronto I'm Isabella Perone.

18:20  
Well, I just personally would like to give a shout out to Isabella for putting that together. That was a really powerful Listen, and really, really well done. Great, great work on that Isabella. 

18:31  
Yeah, I agree, Logan. That was a really great listen. Coming up next, a quick Google search for Tony Dugan Smith will yield some results if you searched really, really awesome guitars, as well as burn up his career as a rock star while he played guitar for the band the Punka Orchestra. This Toronto based band peaked stardom after winning the CASBY Award for the most promising band in 1985. Since then, Tony has lent his hands more to the art of building beautiful guitars. In this podcast our very own Logan Ross sits down with Tony at the Cabbagetown host turned workshop owned by fellow luthier Linda Masner where Tony does much of his building. Although you probably will never own a Tony Dugan Smith guitar, let alone play one you could listen to him artfully speak about his passion for creating and playing them.

19:22  
What I want from a builder would you want if I was the player? If you were the player. If I was the player? If I was the player Oh my God. What an astounding question. Why that's an incredible question. My name is Tony Dugan Smith and I build guitars.

19:49  
I got into building guitars because I was going to art school in Halifax. I had some great guitars and I couldn't find anyone I trusted to fix them and then by chance I met this guy, Rufus Stewart, who had a guitar shop on the, on the cliffs at a place called Chebucto Head, outside Halifax. That was like the Star Trek Enterprise, it was incredible. And that was my introduction into guitar fixing and, and then finally, guitar making. I build a small number of guitars every year, because I don't want it to really be like a, you know, like a production line or something, because that doesn't interest me. I'm lucky in that I don't have to build strictly for making a living, you know, because I do other things as well that, that take care of that side of it. You know, I get I, you know, I get to build for the people that I want to build for, you know, and that is, you know, with the whole journey. I'm not interested in sort of just making pedestrian instruments, you know, or, or, or even instruments that are just going to hang on a wall. I'd say that all of my instruments get played, you know, and I don't think there's any of them that just sit my case and grow moss.

21:14  
The job as a builder is you're just making something that's in your wallet, in your hands, it's just dormant, in there is a bunch of pieces of wood that you're assembling. And it's not till someone actually owns it, and then takes it away and plays it that is life really begins. All you've done is assemble this thing, you know, and it's like, you know, because it's not making any music, and it's like being played while you build it. It's kind of an odd thing, you know, it's like making paint versus or something, you know, only way cooler. If you did nothing with building and you didn't eat, you know, eat or sleep, you know, you could probably make them in a few months, in two or three months. But for most of us, that's just not the way it works. And it's not, I mean, the other thing, as well as if you're going to build guitars like this, that you want to be special, you got to do it, right. It can vary, I mean, it can be like, you know, a matter of like, you know, six, eight months, it can be a year and a half, sometimes it depends on if you're building it solely by itself, or if you're making two or three instruments, or four or five instruments. You know, it sort of it really, it really comes down to, you know, the amount of time you have a lot into it really, it can be hard, you know, especially when, when you're stupid enough to play it, after you've strung it up. Sometimes the best thing is to set like, you know, play it, make sure it works, and then put it in the case and go do something else. You know, because, because it is easy to get attached to instruments, and you just have to become like, you know, smart enough to know yourself, you know, and not go down that path. You know, but and it's hard sometimes, you know, because sometimes you're building for wonderful people. And you've built an instrument that just resonates with you as I Oh my god, it has the voice that I want to know. And it's like you have to just like I say, you have to keep that lid closed, you know, and go wash the dishes, you know? Yeah, I play I play guitar every day, you know, I love playing. I think it's important for, you know, for builders to play as well, just, you know, so they all you know, even when it just comes down to setting up their own guitars. You know, it's sort of, it's crucial that, you know, you know, the experience that a player is having with your instrument, you know, and all the kind of idiosyncrasies of the guitar, you know, and sometimes, I mean, you know, it's a funny thing in it, because it's like, there's a lot of guitars that when I pick them up, to me, they sound like shit, to be honest. You got to be careful as well, that your own personal taste, doesn't shape everything you do, you know, because sometimes, you know, it's like, you have to, you know, it's almost like for every guitar, there's a player, no matter what you may think of that guitar in someone else's hands, it's gonna be like a gym. Because, you know, like, players just like, you know, like, many of us, were looking for something. And they were trying to, like, you know, you know, talk about the musician here, you know, they're looking for something that kind of resonates with them. And that kind of inspires them, you know, so that they, you know, whenever they're away from it, they want to get back to that instrument and play it. It's a voice basically, that represents them. It's as simple as that, you know, it's, it's like, you know, like a lot of guitar players, you know, would probably love to be able to sing, and some of them can, and a lot of them can't. You know, and it's like, it gives them a voice. I mean, it becomes their voice. Everybody needs to find a way in their life to express themselves, you know, and it's like, not everybody wants to listen to you harp on all the time, you know. Let me tell you about my life, but you know, it's like, it's just like, you know, it's like yeah, get up, get over yourself. Song like, like writing songs or writing music gives you another way to express you know, deep deep thoughts, you know, like things that are in everybody.

24:37  
Voila! The sound of silence. The last four years I've been involved in a project that's called the Group of Seven guitar project. And that is seven luthiers who all started out around the same time and together in Toronto in the early 70s building guitars. Each of us has been assigned or chosen a members, the Group of Seven painters to represent is if this person was a customer, and you were trying to build a guitar that you you believe they'd be happy with. And that would represent them about four years ago, we started talking to the McMichael gallery about this. It'll be in the show for six months, it runs from May 6 till October 29. I actually get to do my sort of, sort of presentation with a guitar and Kevin Britt playing on the very last day of the show. It's gonna be an extra special event because the other guitars can finally come off the wall and be played to.

25:36  
What do you hope will happen after the six months it's in the McMichael Gallery?

25:40  
Well, I hope it gets played more often than it has sitting on the wall.

25:49  
Moving on, every year, nerds, geeks and pop culture enthusiasts flock to the Toronto Convention Center for Comic Con to live out every fans dream.

25:59  
Among the most dedicated of these fans are the cosplayers. Cosplay is the act of dressing up as your favorite character,

26:06  
Think Halloween, but 1000 times more impressive.

26:10  
Yeah, but it's not all smiles and sunshine.

26:12  
Nope, the fun aspect of cosplayers often diminished for women by the inconsiderate people who grope, harass and treat them like dirt. Suddenly, a chance to flex their creative muscles becomes an uncomfortable test of boorish endurance.

26:29  
Mackenzie Allen catches up with three cosplayers at this year's Toronto Comic Con. They had more than a few things to say about the current state of the community, as well as the steps that are being taken to stop the the abuse and harassment.

26:43  
Back when I started, I got a lot of hate simply because I wasn't a white or a light colored Asian. That was a huge thing. And now it's all about it went from being black people can't cosplay to anyone can cosplay and we could paint ourselves black and it's fine. And that's like a 180 for me. So you went from making fun of my skin color and being like, you can't look like that to painting yourself and then washing it off. It's like afterwards. I am Rebecca Maynard, Beck's Cosplay Wonderland on all social media, but you can just call me Beck.

27:17  
A lot of new fans will treat women kind of like their statues like just objects. As you saw when that guy came up. He didn't even ask for my permission for the photo. He has somebody else to take it and just stood next to me like I was a statue essentially. And then you know, there's always the people over sexualizing women no matter what they're wearing the groping, the comments. Those are pretty much existed in any hobby, though, for women.

27:59  
Keep your filthy hands off me. Yes, ma'am.

28:05  
My name is Mickey Berman, also known as beggared cosplays. And I've been cosplaying in the Toronto cosplay community for about six years. I'd say the more underlying thing than anything else, just as being a woman in this more nerd geeky community is that I'm not taken seriously. That you'll they'll see you in a costume and it could be the most beautiful costume the most detailed thing and you've could have put hours and hours of work or lots of lots of money commissioning somebody to make it for you. And you're still gonna get somebody come up to you being like, Do you know who this character is? Do you know why they're wearing this? And that's if you put a lot of effort into one kind of costume. And the problem is, is that there's that underlying level of harassment and rudeness and bullying that exists in the community. But there's also another more sexual or physical harassment that happens as well. A lot of the characters that are popular in mainstream video games, comic books, and animes, which are a lot of what people cause play from, tend to be a little bit more on the revealing side. Now, they're drawn that way or their created that way and they're designed that way, and that's totally fine. But when people want to cosplay them, or dress up that way, there's often a lot of pressure on people to be as accurate as they can be. Which is hard to do if you are a 3D person trying to create the look of a 2D person. So not only do you have that layer of harassment because you're a woman in this community, but you also have it because you don't look exactly like the character or there's not one thing absolutely perfect about you. It's a it's a bit of a struggle with somebody who's just trying to be creative and show their love for their favorite characters, but they're met with a lot of bullying and a lot of harassment. I think there's a anonymity of being on the internet. I don't use my real name on my page or anything. I go wild. Elias and people will just post things being like Hey, babe, nice ass on that. I get sent about, I'd say 10 pictures of penises a week. It doesn't say anywhere that I want that.

30:12  
I'm Ilana Solomon, I think harassment, objectification and unwarranted touching generally seems to be a major issue. But I think also, probably some of the most respected cosplayers in the community are female. Those are the ones that are getting a lot more attention, so it's kind of like a double sided. I've seen it happen to friends that I've been with and I've always tried to kind of like call people out on it. mercifully, it hasn't happened to me.

30:46  
Denigrating women is a relic of the feudal age. Down with discrimination. Albrights, let's show that jerk what girls are made of!

30:55  
So cosplay is not consent is the idea that while people are in their costumes, just because they're dressed a certain way does not give you permission to touch them to be rude to them, or to expect things from them. It's the same way, how somebody would say, just because they're wearing a revealing skirt does not mean they want to be harassed on the street. It's the exact same principle just applied in a different setting.

31:18  
I was out of the game for a couple years and it was good to come back and see signs that were saying that that conventions were not kind of standing for that kind of behavior. So it's, that's been a good shift to see over the years.

31:29  
I think it's pretty much common sense that I don't understand why people are making a big deal about it. Like, yes, they're wearing a costume, it doesn't mean you can grope them take their pictures without asking them, get in their face. Like that's the same if you were wearing literally anything if you were at the beach, would you walk up to a woman in a bikini and grope her or say disgusting things to her take a picture without her permission? No. So I don't understand why like, it's a huge thing. It's it's common sense.

31:53  
More proof that action is being taken to prevent these sorts of measures. Like it sort of thing I someone was kind of being creepy to one of my friends and I kind of loudly said, Oh, hey, do I need to go find security, but at the same time, I probably wouldn't have known where to go to find someone if I needed to do that. Okay, if it just was more visually a safe environment. I think they're very proactive on making sure you know, people have badges and are in the flow of traffic is good, but I don't know that there's enough attention necessarily being paid to people's safety. 

32:22  
All in all, I'd say taking the stigma away from reporting harassment would be the biggest issue because if someone is embarrassed or feels like it's that person's fault, that they're being mistreated or harassed, they're not going to report it. They're not going to do anything about it.

32:38  
So I'd say shifting the blame from the victim to the abuser is the key.

32:54  
I hope you guys learned something about cosplay etiquette from that awesome podcast. I know it's important information for those who want to attend these otherwise very fun events.

33:04  
Yes, thank you for your comment to Julia and thank you Mackenzie for making that those I think both really important messages. For Daniel Haas moving from Hamilton to downtown Toronto meant much more than packing up a suitcase and driving 70 kilometers away from home.

33:21  
You right, it meant more from moving, practicing drag in front of the bedroom mirror to performing in front of a packed bar on Church Street.

33:29  
Today Daniel finds his passion and opportunity in the village. Here he can explore the art of drag performance and express the bold, confident person that had always been hiding. In Toronto, He can be himself in front of an audience he can be fearless on stage he is violent dreams.

33:50  
Hamilton is not really like, it's not like it's homophobic but it's not like as gay friendly as Toronto. So I was very always like out of place.

34:04  
Like in Hamilton I like being like, fashion forward and like more feminine and like wearing makeup and stuff like that, so like here in Toronto is like fit in.

34:18  
Like when I did drag the first time it was in Hamilton, I didn't go out I just like, was in my room. And then when it came to Toronto, I would go out in drag and like show people so that's the difference was like growing up there versus living here now. It's like accepted, it's like a normal thing. Even like in the straight community, like people know about it.

34:43  
Ru Ru RuPaul drag race.

34:49  
I think when I first started it was just based on I just started watching Ru Paul's drag race. And I had never heard about it, which is funny, being a gay but like, I had never heard about it. And I started watching it and I just like fell in love with it. And it was like, oh my god, like, I want to try that. So I like tried it in my bedroom, at home and it was awful, but then I like started doing it more like practicing. And then I ended up like just going out in drag. And then I got kind of noticed and people approached me and that's how it all started really.

35:30  
I was super nervous like, it's like just that's stage fright. That's normal. It's like healthy. I'm dressed as a woman, first of all, and then it's like I'm in heels. And then I'm like lip singing. I'm gonna have to dance. I have to like engage the crowd, so it's like, there's a lot more on my mind. Like, my first song ever was Cockiness by Rhianna. Like, don't look at the pictures, like even like a month ago. I'm like, ew what was I thinking? I'm like, always evolving and growing and bettering myself so. Now I'm just like, nothing I'm just like, used to it. And I just like, depending if it's like a new venue, I get like, obviously that little nervous tic again. But if it's like a venue that I work at a lot, I don't get nervous because like the crowd is usually the same type of crowd that goes to like a certain bar or club. So I just like know, the people I know what they like, and I just, I'm confident in myself. So I just say let's get drunk.

36:49  
I have like a really good group of friends they're really supportive. So they always like, usually come to my shows, it's like coming out or the village is like a little family. So like, we all like support each other and like, go see each other. Like, I'll just go see some of my friends like if they're performing just to see them like just to hang out. So it's nice, like, to have familiar faces in the crowd too, right? My mom like, and my sister come to my shows all the time. My sister's at almost every show. They drive up and my mom will come and it's on a weekend because she has to work but they come to my shows and they wear t shirts with my face on it. Like as I was in, like if I'm in a competition or a project or something like yeah, they're really supportive. 

37:27  
So she's actually there, look at that span. I don't talk to her like a mother talk to her like my other half, you know. Her and my sister are very open. I've always been like really confident, but doing drag has really like brought it out of me and like I'm able to, like meet people and like not be shy. And like go in front of a crowd, like public speaking is like not really an issue for me anymore because I have to for my job. It's part of like what I do so I'm used to it. It's made me feel like better about my appearance and you know, just better about my art. Like, it is an art so for me, it's like I put a lot of like work into especially my makeup. Like that's my like what I know for my aesthetic the way I  like look. I put a lot of work into that. So I take pride in that and it's changed it's helped me as a makeup artist also like evolve.

38:44  
The makeup a liquid glue down her eyebrows. We glue wigs onto her head like we duct tape around her head. We put padding like foam pads on we put like eight pairs of dance type on to hide it.  Like we cinch we do all this work that it's like you see like the beauty but it's like look at like what went into it and that's what I wish people would appreciate is the work that goes into drag.

39:24  
And what an inspiring podcast one inspiring feature to unfortunately, conclude all of our features for the day.

39:33  
Yeah, thank you to everybody for listening to Talkin' Art.

39:37  
Or as we also like to call it intense ruminations on the very nature of creative discourse and the personal work that inspires.

39:43  
We hope that you guys will tune in next week for more stories about art in the city.

39:47  
And just remember fan mail and donations are welcome and if you love that smooth silky sound of Julia's voice she is accepting text messages.

39:55  
I am Logan. My number 647 fan mail.